[FUN_Mail] Neuroscience program requirements - query

Tue Mar 7 22:24:02 UTC 2023

Hi Ron,

Here is a link to the catalog copy for the Behavioral Neuroscience program at Western Washington University. Our academic year is 3 quarters so the credits need to be divided by 1.5 to compare with semester credits.

https://catalog.wwu.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=18&poid=8401

One thing we have discussed over the years is having our major at least meet the minimum pre-med suggested requirements. Of course students can be advised to take pre-med requirements outside of a major, but we found it seemed to help students decide to go for our major instead of Biology.

As for the BS vs. BA that is such a conundrum. I graduated from a small liberal arts school as an undergrad and the BA was considered to be more prestigious at the time compared to a BS from a state school. But nowadays with the STEM emphasis students here are more drawn to the BS. Employers in biotech might also be biased towards the BS.

All the best to your work keeping your major what you believe it should be. I admire folks sticking up for their programs and students.

Jeff

________________________________
From: FUN_Mail <fun_mail-bounces at lists.funfaculty.org> on behalf of Ronald J Bayline <rjbayline at washjeff.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:14 AM
To: fun_mail at lists.funfaculty.org <fun_mail at lists.funfaculty.org>
Subject: [FUN_Mail] Neuroscience program requirements - query

Hi all,

At Washington & Jefferson College, we are in the midst of implementing a new curriculum across the college.  Along with this curricular change, the college is considering changes to the allowable sizes of majors, making the recommended maximum number of courses in a major smaller.  As an interdisciplinary major, Neuroscience at W&J is already pushing the upper limit of what is acceptable at our institution, and now we may be required to justify the size of our major if it falls outside the new requirements.  To that end, I'd like to ask for some thoughts and suggestions from schools that have Neuroscience majors, particularly those who are liberal arts colleges and universities.

Our major currently consists of a minimum of 14 four-credit courses (56 credit hours). Currently that consists of 7 introductory courses across biology, chemistry, math, physics and psychology, 3 core neuroscience courses (one with a neurophysiology lab), and 3 electives from among advanced biology, psychology, and other courses. In addition, students need to complete a research capstone, which may be completed as a summer internship, or a research experience on campus. A quick survey of other schools like us in our region shows that we are on the low end of total course requirements (most require 15-18 courses, and more than 60 credit-hours).  We feel comfortable with the size of our major as it stands given the outcomes of our students, but will likely be above new guidelines at W&J that are being discussed. I can easily look up what the major requirements are at other institutions, so I don't need that information sent to me. But I'd like to ask more qualitative questions:

  1.  What do you envision is a minimum size for a neuroscience major, and what do you see as potential problems with having a neuroscience major that is smaller (perhaps as few as 12 total courses)?
  2.  For those of you with graduate programs in neuroscience, do you see a problem with students applying to your programs if they have a smaller neuroscience major than other programs?
  3.  We offer a BA as a degree.  Do you see a distinction between a BA and BS degree in terms of the courses offered?
  4.  Do you have any other suggestions about how to defend the size of our neuroscience program?

Thanks for any input you may be able to provide.

Regards,

Ron Bayline

[Washington and Jefferson Logo]
Ronald Bayline, Ph.D. (he/him)
Professor of Biology and Highmark Professor in the Health Sciences
Washington & Jefferson College
[Phone]
724-503-1001 x3406 <tel:724-503-1001>
[Email]
rjbayline at washjeff.edu <mailto:rjbayline at washjeff.edu>
[Link]
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washjeff.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cgrimmj%40wwu.edu%7Cd6da348b2b9f4c3f354b08db1f2f79a2%7Cdc46140ce26f43efb0ae00f257f478ff%7C0%7C0%7C638138061003955347%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mz0x2LIWI9PqzX0GfFz0VGO4Jew3HOl6d%2BwppT8oqt8%3D&reserved=0 <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washjeff.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cgrimmj%40wwu.edu%7Cd6da348b2b9f4c3f354b08db1f2f79a2%7Cdc46140ce26f43efb0ae00f257f478ff%7C0%7C0%7C638138061003955347%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IiECKXLwtNFaQnUdeirwd90wzbt0u670GSj4ArbTAQw%3D&reserved=0>

-------------- next part --------------
   Hi Ron,

   Here is a link to the catalog copy for the Behavioral Neuroscience
   program at Western Washington University. Our academic year is 3
   quarters so the credits need to be divided by 1.5 to compare with
   semester credits.

   [1]https://catalog.wwu.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=18&poid=8401

   One thing we have discussed over the years is having our major at least
   meet the minimum pre-med suggested requirements. Of course students can
   be advised to take pre-med requirements outside of a major, but we
   found it seemed to help students decide to go for our major instead of
   Biology.

   As for the BS vs. BA that is such a conundrum. I graduated from a small
   liberal arts school as an undergrad and the BA was considered to be
   more prestigious at the time compared to a BS from a state school. But
   nowadays with the STEM emphasis students here are more drawn to the BS.
   Employers in biotech might also be biased towards the BS.

   All the best to your work keeping your major what you believe it should
   be. I admire folks sticking up for their programs and students.

   Jeff
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: FUN_Mail <fun_mail-bounces at lists.funfaculty.org> on behalf of
   Ronald J Bayline <rjbayline at washjeff.edu>
   Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:14 AM
   To: fun_mail at lists.funfaculty.org <fun_mail at lists.funfaculty.org>
   Subject: [FUN_Mail] Neuroscience program requirements - query

   Hi all,
   At Washington & Jefferson College, we are in the midst of implementing
   a new curriculum across the college.  Along with this curricular
   change, the college is considering changes to the allowable sizes of
   majors, making the recommended maximum number of courses in a major
   smaller.  As an interdisciplinary major, Neuroscience at W&J is already
   pushing the upper limit of what is acceptable at our institution, and
   now we may be required to justify the size of our major if it falls
   outside the new requirements.  To that end, I'd like to ask for some
   thoughts and suggestions from schools that have Neuroscience majors,
   particularly those who are liberal arts colleges and universities.
   Our major currently consists of a minimum of 14 four-credit courses (56
   credit hours). Currently that consists of 7 introductory courses across
   biology, chemistry, math, physics and psychology, 3 core neuroscience
   courses (one with a neurophysiology lab), and 3 electives from among
   advanced biology, psychology, and other courses. In addition, students
   need to complete a research capstone, which may be completed as a
   summer internship, or a research experience on campus. A quick survey
   of other schools like us in our region shows that we are on the low end
   of total course requirements (most require 15-18 courses, and more than
   60 credit-hours).  We feel comfortable with the size of our major as it
   stands given the outcomes of our students, but will likely be above new
   guidelines at W&J that are being discussed. I can easily look up what
   the major requirements are at other institutions, so I don't need that
   information sent to me. But I'd like to ask more qualitative questions:
     1.  What do you envision is a minimum size for a neuroscience major,
   and what do you see as potential problems with having a neuroscience
   major that is smaller (perhaps as few as 12 total courses)?
     2.  For those of you with graduate programs in neuroscience, do you
   see a problem with students applying to your programs if they have a
   smaller neuroscience major than other programs?
     3.  We offer a BA as a degree.  Do you see a distinction between a BA
   and BS degree in terms of the courses offered?
     4.  Do you have any other suggestions about how to defend the size of
   our neuroscience program?
   Thanks for any input you may be able to provide.
   Regards,
   Ron Bayline
   [Washington and Jefferson Logo]
   Ronald Bayline, Ph.D. (he/him)
   Professor of Biology and Highmark Professor in the Health Sciences
   Washington & Jefferson College
   [Phone]
   724-503-1001 x3406 <tel:724-503-1001>
   [Email]
   rjbayline at washjeff.edu <[2]mailto:rjbayline at washjeff.edu>
   [Link]
   [3]https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
   .washjeff.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cgrimmj%40wwu.edu%7Cd6da348b2b9f4c3f354b
   08db1f2f79a2%7Cdc46140ce26f43efb0ae00f257f478ff%7C0%7C0%7C6381380610039
   55347%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
   iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mz0x2LIWI9PqzX0GfFz0VGO
   4Jew3HOl6d%2BwppT8oqt8%3D&reserved=0
   <[4]https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw
   ww.washjeff.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cgrimmj%40wwu.edu%7Cd6da348b2b9f4c3f35
   4b08db1f2f79a2%7Cdc46140ce26f43efb0ae00f257f478ff%7C0%7C0%7C63813806100
   3955347%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ
   BTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IiECKXLwtNFaQnUdeirwd
   90wzbt0u670GSj4ArbTAQw%3D&reserved=0>

References

   1. https://catalog.wwu.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=18&poid=8401
   2. mailto:rjbayline at washjeff.edu
   3. https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.washjeff.edu/&data=05|01|grimmj@wwu.edu|d6da348b2b9f4c3f354b08db1f2f79a2|dc46140ce26f43efb0ae00f257f478ff|0|0|638138061003955347|Unknown|TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0=|3000|||&sdata=Mz0x2LIWI9PqzX0GfFz0VGO4Jew3HOl6d+wppT8oqt8=&reserved=0
   4. https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https://www.washjeff.edu/&data=05|01|grimmj@wwu.edu|d6da348b2b9f4c3f354b08db1f2f79a2|dc46140ce26f43efb0ae00f257f478ff|0|0|638138061003955347|Unknown|TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0=|3000|||&sdata=IiECKXLwtNFaQnUdeirwd90wzbt0u670GSj4ArbTAQw=&reserved=0